By: Kelley Lauginiger
After a monster year in 2018 playing roughly 100 live shows and releasing three new records on their own label, Nothing Too Fancy Music, Umphrey’s McGee could be taking it easy in 2019. But they’re not.
If New Year’s Eve is truly predictive of someone’s upcoming year, Umphrey’s four-night Atlanta showing signals a pretty bonkers one. With songs new and old, some spicy covers, and a special, first-ever-played combination, it’s just a sign of what’s coming this year.
Initiating their Wax On, Wax Off tour in Richmond, VA, last week, I got the chance to catch up with Umphrey’s McGee keyboard wizard Joel Cummins via phone on his one night off before tour after Holy Ship. A new dad, this was the first night he left his daughter’s side since she was born. “I definitely had the youngest kid on Holy Ship!” he shared. That is going to be one well-traveled kiddo.
Kelley Lauginiger: Congratulations! Since we last spoke, you’ve become a father.
Joel Cummins: I know! That is pretty wild. Even though tonight is the first night I’m not spending with her, and I’ll admit, it’s a little emotional, I’m mostly incredibly grateful. You know, not many dads get to spend the first two months with their daughters, so I’ve been stoked about that.
Kelley: That is something super special. I’d think it’d have to be a pretty big occasion to leave her side.
Joel: (laughing) Yup! Gotta go to work… Dasha’s working too (Cummins’ wife).
Kelley: Ain’t that the truth! Congratulations, again. That’s really cute. And how was Holy Ship? Did you get to see Big Freedia?
Joel: You know, I didn’t get out to see anything til after Big Freedia’s set, and got to see about two hours of music. I saw some really cool shit last night from a guy named Shalou, and got to see Big Wild too. And they were both badass.
Kelley: Nice! Is that such a different experience for you, watching, versus playing?
Joel: You know, honestly, I don’t’ think that much. Because I was a music fan before I was a performer. So, I like to check out music and I love that perspective of either thinking about it more educationally, or even just going out to have fun and not even trying to dissect what’s going on.
I love being a fan as much as I love being a performer. That’s something that I think has kind of changed for a lot of musicians over time. I feel like there was a little bit of this perception back in the 70’s-80’s, where you weren’t supposed to listen to current music so you weren’t influenced by it, or some sort of attitude like that.
And now I feel like music has become so universal, and there are so many festivals out there that everyone is both playing and attending, I feel like that kind of attitude is not as prevalent anymore.
Kelley: I mean, how could you not be a music fan, and be a musical performer? And why wouldn’t you want music to influence you? That’s basically what music does, it influences you.
Joel: Yea, yes, that’s very true. I mean, the argument you could make is that, for the sake of uniqueness…
A good example of a time it maybe wasn’t so great to be influenced by something would be Tommy Lee coming back to Motley Crue and he’d be like, “hey guys, I’ve been checking out all this electronic stuff and I really think Motely Crüe needs to, like, venture into this….” (laughing) Maybe that wouldn’t work as well.
Kelley: (laughing) Very good point. So that brings up a good point, actually. We’ve been building an internship program here at Weird Music for college students to learn about the music industry and participate in music journalism, event marketing, and the like. The interns submitted this question to ask you, and it feels like the perfect time to ask.
Since you’ve been playing for 20+ years now, you’ve earned fans of all ages. Some are kids, some have kids, some have grandkids, and they all love Umphrey’s. Based on the different age ranges and generations in your fan base, how do you determine what to play, where? And are there certain areas you expect to see a younger or older crowd, and play to them specifically?
Joel: These are good questions! The overarching answer is: it depends. And some markets demand more of that than others.
So, you know, if we’re playing an event at a college campus, we’re less likely to play say, an obscure Weather Report song like we did for New Year’s. But, when you think about the end goal being to connect with the fans, though, you can think of it two ways. Sometimes you’re doing that by playing a song that’s recognizable, and other times you’re trying to educate and teach some younger music fans about a song they just have to know as a music fan, like an obscure Weather Report track (laughing).
So yea, I guess it depends. One of the things that was brought up about Richmond by my in-laws, who are big music fans, is that Richmond is a big classic rock town. The music fans here love that type of stuff, but, for that reason, a lot of that style of band will play there a lot. So, a Who cover, or ZZ Top, or maybe The Allman Brothers, would go over great.
We also sometimes cater the vibe to something that is momentous and natural happening around us while we’re playing, like if we’re playing at sunset. Other times, we just kinda go out there and play our show. It can depend on the mood of the band.
Kelley: That is definitely something you guys are great at. Do you usually meet day of show to discuss?
Joel: Yes. Usually this is the case, or we try to make it this way. We don’t try to premeditate things too much; for the most part we’re getting together day of show and talking about what songs we want to play that night.
I know you and I have talked about this a few times in the past, I’ll research our past times played at a specific venue or in a certain market, and make sure we don’t overplay the same song each time, or something like that. It helps keep the rotation fresh.
At a given show, we know there’s a few hundred people who have seen every show, and we also know that there are a few hundred people who are seeing Umphrey’s for their first time that night.
Kelley: You’ve taught me a lot about that, actually. The way bands speak to everyone in the crowd through their setlist arrangements.
Joel: It is fun, and can be challenging. Especially when you play a lot of shows.
One of my favorite things that I’ve read was Derek Trucks, talking about putting a setlist together. He said, “What I’m trying to do is play 1/3 of the show for myself and the band, 1/3 of the show for the die-hards, and the other 1/3 for the brand new fans at their first show that night.”
Kelley: That’s so true. You gotta keep people coming back, try to hook the new people, and enjoy how it feels to play, too. So well said. And when you said you do this research about past played songs, do you have some kind of marketing team doing this? Or is this you, Joel, doing this yourself?
Joel: Oh yea, that’s all me! That’s all us as a band. I use our All Things Umphrey’s site and put together lists. I screenshot all the songs we haven’t played the last three times we played the market, and here are the songs we’ve played more than once.
That way, we know what we haven’t done. We know what we shouldn’t do. Then everything else is just kind of fair game. We all care enough about how we put together the show, that that is something we want to be responsible for as a band.
Kelley: That says so much about you guys as a band. You play so many shows a year, it must be hard to keep up with.
Joel: It is, but in a way, that’s one of the most important things to us. The kind of show experience we’re giving people. We really do want people to leave saying, “that was awesome, that was fun, I want to come back and do that again!” But then when they do come back the second time, it can’t be the same show! We want them to be like, “Okay! Wow. That was completely different than last time!” We want that experience for people. So we really try to deliver it.
Kelley: That’s really cool. Your upcoming Cincinnati shows should expect a similar treatment regarding setlist diversity compared to Columbus last year. Right? Since last time we spoke was a preview for your Columbus show, here in Ohio, right as you were releasing your first of the three albums that came out last year
Joel: You know, funny story about the Columbus show. Not to shift gears. But I think this really speaks to how the show experience can be different for all of us.
For me, I walked away from that show feeling terrible about my own performance. I left the stage feeling like I lacked original ideas, and like I made a bunch of mistakes, or was just not super precise rhythmically on a couple things. I was disgusted with myself that night, which is very rare for me that I can’t at least find a silver lining. But, that night, I felt just awful about how I played.
Then, it’s the end of the year last year and I’m seeing people write me, being like, “You know, Columbus might be show of the year!” And I’m over here like, “It was!?!” (laughing)
Kelley: (Laughing) Wow, that’s so crazy! I think a lot of fans feel that way about that show. I personally had a blast. That “Wormbog” was sweet!
Joel: (Laughing) Hell yea, I think a lot of people liked that one. And the improv from “Syncopated Strangers” got a few remarks.
Kelley: Lest we forget the tearjerking combo of “In the Kitchen” and “Haji” together which just left me sobbing on the balcony flashing back on my entire life… you really touched on a lot of different feelings and sounds that night.
Joel: (Laughing) Well, fortunately I think it was my bandmates who picked me up that night. That was helpful!
It’s so interesting, and I think this is true for everyone in our band, and even our fans: we have so many things going on stylistically that everybody has different experiences. One person’s favorite show, will be someone else’s worst show.
Even looking at how people reacted to our (four night) New Year’s run. I love that healthy debate of, “which night was best?” among fans saying “this night was the best!” No, “this night was the best!” That just shows the diversity of our fan base, and what they prefer, and also how great it is that we seem to be keeping that diversity in the sound.
Kelley: Absolutely agree. Each night had something that could be a highlight of the whole show, in the beginning, middle, and end of the show! You could tell you were really dialed in, at least listening back. Speaking of that, have you ever done “Cemetery Walk II” into “Cemetery Walk” before?
Joel: No! We’ve never done that before. It was something that came up as we were doing the setlist. It was funny, we were debating, and, well, let’s just say some of us like to go further outside the box than others.
I think I finally won everybody over by saying, “Guys, look. Nothing is going to change as far as the performance. BUT- the people who do this a lot and have seen us a bunch, are gonna be like, “THAT WAS COOL AS FUCK!” And totally appreciate it.
Kelley: Signed. Plus, the songs themselves RAGED. Amazing versions.
Joel: (Laughing) Yea, that was super fun. That “Cem Walk II” turned into a pretty unique version.
I recently listened back when my daughter was napping on Holy Ship, and it took me back to Jake and Brendan doing this really, intricate, cool double-guitar-thing. We were in key of C minor at that point, and my ear heard that what they were playing could be played in B flat major. I recalled saying to Ryan (Stasik, bass), “When we come back in, guitars, keep doing what you’re doing. Ryan and I are gonna imply B flat for awhile.” And it kind of took off in a very unique direction for the “Cem II” improv to really hit another peak that we hadn’t hit before.
It was nice to break out of the mold a little bit! I think that’s something that we’ll continue to do with improv going into 2019. I know everybody in the band feels like we really ended the year on a high point. In general, I think 2018 is going to stand out as one of the better years of our career.
Kelley: Absolutely. It’s so amazing how you’ve managed to put out all this new music, and kind of create some new favorites even, in under a year.
Joel: Oh yea. And the flipside of that is that we have so much more to play! Some songs we haven’t even played yet from the albums we put out last year, or maybe have played once. We’re still really excited to dig in as if it’s brand new to us. It still kind of is!
Kelley: Definitely. What’s this I saw you tweet about making another concept album similar to the Abbey Road release?
Joel: Oh, yea, that’s something we’ve just vaguely talked about as a band. The main question is; will the fans be really into it? We got a great reception from Abbey Road, but, let’s be honest, there’s only so many famous, iconic studios in the world.
And then, how many people are in tune with it? Obviously a place like Muscle Shoals, Alabama, is well-known to people who loved the music of the 60’s and 70’s, there are a lot of documentaries about it already, and it does have some knowledge out there…but do younger people care? I guess that’s what we’re trying to figure out.
Again, this is a great example of the cross-section of our fan base. While we’re aware younger people may not be as in-the-know, is it a reason to expose them to this awesome music, this awesome place, and teach them something they need to know about music? Like, if you’re a music fan, you need to know Muscle Shoals. All of these great songs came from there, The Rolling Stones recorded there; Otis Redding, and Wilson Pickett. Duane Allman. There’s this bit of music history element where we like to, kind of, incorporate into sharing with fans in any of the content we produce.
Kelley: I think that’s really true. I bet you have exposed lots of fans to new music, especially through covers and mash-ups. Speaking of, HOLY KRIS MYERS DRUM SOLO on that Rush song over New Year’s…
Joel: “YYZ!” Wow, yea, I think that has to be one of his top five drum solos.
There are some moments, on stage, when you have these moments with the other guys, and that was one of those moments with Kris. I was blown away.
Getting to play with Kris every night is, a lot of times, a challenge for me, but it’s one of those ones where I look forward to the challenge, you know? Getting to be able to just sit there and hear him do something that so few people can do, and be able to be on stage doing that with him, and to be honest, the reaction we’ve gotten from music fans who recognize that that was a seriously sick version of “YYZ;” that’s just so cool.
A little fun tidbit for me is, my first Rush show was actually the last show they ever played. They ended their tour at the Forum (Los Angeles), and I want to say it was like, Phish there one week, and Rush the next week. We had a nice little L.A. music week! I took Dasha to that (Cummins’ wife), and when I told her dad, I know I got some brownie points for that one (laughing).
In the past, we do get out there in terms of less obvious things that we cover, but we have a few covers that everyone knows. Part of it is that we’re running out of things to do after 20 years (laughing). We gotta dig a little deeper into the catalog sometimes. I love that we’re going into 2019 and we have an entire room of people going nuts on “River People” by Weather Report. That’s one of those ones where, if you’re a music fan, you need to know this song.
Kelley: Absolutely. And you’re born of education (with two teachers for parents), so you come by it honestly. Speaking of education, I have to ask; I attended your first Real to Reel showing in Chicago, and you guys said during the Q&A that you used to use the code word, “donuts,” in college when you were looking for weed. Since that goes way back, how do you guys feel about Phish running away with the donuts theme?
Joel: (Laughing) Well, first I’ll say, there have been lots of different codes along the way. But, I am pretty Jon Fishman had the donut dress before Umphrey’s was a band. So no issues there (laughing), I’m gonna give him credit for that one.
But on that same topic, and I won’t reveal who this is, but I was trying to help somebody at a festival get something, so I wrote them and asked for “pizza,” and they responded, “Okay…sure. Is that because you think I know the local pizza joints, or…?” so things can get lost in communication with the code words.
Kelley: That’s pretty hilarious. So at this point last year, you were announcing the first of three albums. Can we expect a big announcement from Umphrey’s soon?
Joel: (Laughing) Oh man, that’s a lot of pressure. Like I said, we’re still working through all the new material and are genuinely excited to see what we can do with some of the new songs. We haven’t even played “Nether” yet, or the bonus track one… “Interlopers” at all. Ryan played piano on that one!
Kelley: NO WAY! That’s so cool, I didn’t realize.
Joel: Yea, I played Rhodes and synths on that, Jake played drums and bass. So that was just the three of us and everyone else had gone home from the studio. We were like, “We wanna do something! Let’s make something up!” and we came up with that.
Kelley: Is that why you called it Interloper?
Joel: What do you mean?
Kelley: Well, the word interloper means like, butting in, or being in a place you don’t belong.
Joel: Okay, honestly, yea that’s probably why. We had a working title that was absolutely horrible, “Woodland Nymphs” (laughing, cracking up completely)
Kelley: Did you feel like woodland nymphs making the song?
Joel: (laughing) Kind of, it was a little bit of a joke about what the music sounded like. I think we were making fun of Ryan’s sort of…I don’t know what you’d call it…. background for some sort of motivational speaking piano sort of vibe. We were joking about woodland nymphs…(laughing), and let’s put it this way, we were never gonna use it.
But we’ve had a history of bad song-naming choices as Umphrey’s McGee, and even naming ourselves Umphrey’s McGee! I mean, “Woodland Nymphs” wouldn’t have been out of the question.
Kelley: That’s so true, and very fair. Such a good tidbit. Can’t wait to hear it live! To close up, what’s up with your tour being called, “Wax On, Wax Off?” Is that the waning and waxing of life; you put out so much last year, and this year is almost rebuilding and playing what you put out?
Joel: Well, I will just say that there will be a moment in time where that title will become more obvious. However, right now is not the time…
Kelley: Oh, come on… does it have to do with vinyl records?
Joel: I mean, that could certainly be one interpretation of what that could mean…
Kelley: Very political answer, Joel. You should run for office when you quit Umphrey’s…
Joel: (Laughing) I don’t think they’re ready for me….
Come see Joel, Andy, Ryan, Brendan, Jake, and Kris in Cincinnati this weekend at The Taft to get your brains melted. Support from our good friends, Big Something. Tickets available here: Friday, Saturday.
